Theravadan

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From: Pali, Bhikkhus Nyanamoli & Khantipalo , Bhikkhu Sujato

Majjhima Nikāya 35 Middle Discourses 35

Cūḷasaccakasutta The Shorter Discourse With Saccaka

Evaṁ me sutaṁ—Thus I heard:So I have heard.

ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā vesāliyaṁ viharati mahāvane kūṭāgārasālāyaṁ. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Vesali in the Great Wood in the Hall with the Peaked Roof.At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.

Tena kho pana samayena saccako nigaṇṭhaputto vesāliyaṁ paṭivasati bhassappavādako paṇḍitavādo sādhusammato bahujanassa. Now on that occasion Saccaka the Nigantha’s son was staying at Vesāli, a debater and a clever speaker, regarded by many as a saint.Now at that time Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, was staying in Vesālī. He was a controversialist who pretended to be astute and was deemed holy by many people.

So vesāliyaṁ parisati evaṁ vācaṁ bhāsati: He spoke these words before an assembly in Vesali:He was telling a crowd in Vesālī,

“nāhaṁ taṁ passāmi samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā, saṅghiṁ gaṇiṁ gaṇācariyaṁ, api arahantaṁ sammāsambuddhaṁ paṭijānamānaṁ, yo mayā vādena vādaṁ samāraddho na saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampavedheyya, yassa na kacchehi sedā mucceyyuṁ. ‘I see no monk or divine, the head of a sangha, head of a sect, teacher of a sect, even if he claims to be Arahant and Fully Enlightened, who would not shake and shiver and tremble and sweat under the armpits on being engaged in argument with me.“I don’t see any ascetic or brahmin who would not shake and rock and tremble, sweating from the armpits, were I to take them on in debate—not a leader of an order or a community, or the tutor of a community, and not even one who claims to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha.

Thūṇaṁ cepāhaṁ acetanaṁ vādena vādaṁ samārabheyyaṁ, sāpi mayā vādena vādaṁ samāraddhā saṅkampeyya sampakampeyya sampavedheyya. Even if I engaged a senseless post in argument it would shake and shiver and tremble on being engaged in argument with me,Even an insentient post would shake and rock and tremble were I to take it on in debate.

Ko pana vādo manussabhūtassā”ti? so what shall I say of a human being?’How much more then a human being!”

Atha kho āyasmā assaji pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya vesāliṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi. Then it being morning, the venerable Assaji dressed, and taking his bowl and (outer) robe, he went into Vesali for alms.Then Venerable Assaji robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Vesālī for alms.

Addasā kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto vesāliyaṁ jaṅghāvihāraṁ anucaṅkamamāno anuvicaramāno āyasmantaṁ assajiṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ. As Saccaka the Nigantha’s son was walking and wandering for exercise in Vesāli, he saw the venerable Assaji coming in the distance.As Saccaka was going for a walk he saw Assaji coming off in the distance.

Disvāna yenāyasmā assaji tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā assajinā saddhiṁ sammodi. When he saw him, he went up to him and exchanged greetings with him,He approached him and exchanged greetings with him.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ aṭṭhāsi. Ekamantaṁ ṭhito kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto āyasmantaṁ assajiṁ etadavoca: and when the courteous and amiable talk was finished, he stood at one side. Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son said:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, Saccaka stood to one side and said to Assaji,

“kathaṁ pana, bho assaji, samaṇo gotamo sāvake vineti, kathaṁbhāgā ca pana samaṇassa gotamassa sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattatī”ti? ‘How does the monk Gotama discipline disciples, Master Assaji; and in what way is the monk Gotama’s instruction usually presented among disciples?’“Worthy Assaji, how does the ascetic Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”

“Evaṁ kho, aggivessana, bhagavā sāvake vineti, evaṁbhāgā ca pana bhagavato sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattati: ‘This is how the Blessed One disciplines disciples, Aggivessana; and in this way the Blessed One’s instruction is usually presented among disciples:“Aggivessana, this is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and his instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:

‘rūpaṁ, bhikkhave, aniccaṁ, vedanā aniccā, saññā aniccā, saṅkhārā aniccā, viññāṇaṁ aniccaṁ. “Bhikkhus, form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent;‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.

Rūpaṁ, bhikkhave, anattā, vedanā anattā, saññā anattā, saṅkhārā anattā, viññāṇaṁ anattā. form is not self, feeling is not self, perception is not self, formations are not self, consciousness is not self;Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self.

Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā, sabbe dhammā anattā’ti. formations are all impermanent, dhammas are all not self.”All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’

Evaṁ kho, aggivessana, bhagavā sāvake vineti, evaṁbhāgā ca pana bhagavato sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattatī”ti. That is the way the Blessed One disciplines disciples; and that is the way in which the Blessed One’s instruction is usually presented among disciples.’This is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and how instruction to his disciples generally proceeds.”

“Dussutaṁ vata, bho assaji, assumha ye mayaṁ evaṁvādiṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ assumha. ‘If this is what the monk Gotama asserts, we hear indeed what is ill hearing.“It’s sad to hear, worthy Assaji, that the ascetic Gotama has such a doctrine.

Appeva nāma mayaṁ kadāci karahaci tena bhotā gotamena saddhiṁ samāgaccheyyāma, appeva nāma siyā kocideva kathāsallāpo, appeva nāma tasmā pāpakā diṭṭhigatā viveceyyāmā”ti. Now suppose, sometime or other, we were to meet Master Gotama, suppose we had some conversation with him? Suppose we were to detach him from that evil view?’Hopefully, some time or other I’ll get to meet the worthy Gotama, and we can have a discussion. And hopefully I can dissuade him from this harmful misconception.”

Tena kho pana samayena pañcamattāni licchavisatāni santhāgāre sannipatitāni honti kenacideva karaṇīyena. Now at that time five hundred Licchavis had met together in an assembly hall for some business or other.Now at that time around five hundred Licchavis were sitting together at the town hall on some business.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto yena te licchavī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā te licchavī etadavoca: Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son went to them and said:Then Saccaka went up to them and said,

“abhikkamantu bhonto licchavī, abhikkamantu bhonto licchavī, ajja me samaṇena gotamena saddhiṁ kathāsallāpo bhavissati. ‘Come forth, Licchavis, sirs, come forth. There will be converse today between me and the monk Gotama.“Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.

Sace me samaṇo gotamo tathā patiṭṭhissati yathā ca me ñātaññatarena sāvakena assajinā nāma bhikkhunā patiṭṭhitaṁ, seyyathāpi nāma balavā puriso dīghalomikaṁ eḷakaṁ lomesu gahetvā ākaḍḍheyya parikaḍḍheyya samparikaḍḍheyya; If the monk Gotama maintains to me what was maintained to me by one of his famous pupils, the bhikkhu called Assaji, then, just as a strong man might seize a long-haired ram by the hair and drag him to, and drag him fro, and drag him round about;If he stands by the position stated to me by one of his well-known disciples—a mendicant named Assaji—I’ll take him on in debate and drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong man would grab a fleecy sheep and drag it to and fro and round about!

evamevāhaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ vādena vādaṁ ākaḍḍhissāmi parikaḍḍhissāmi samparikaḍḍhissāmi. so with argument I will drag the monk Gotama to, and drag him fro, and drag him round about.

Seyyathāpi nāma balavā soṇḍikākammakāro mahantaṁ soṇḍikākiḷañjaṁ gambhīre udakarahade pakkhipitvā kaṇṇe gahetvā ākaḍḍheyya parikaḍḍheyya samparikaḍḍheyya; Just as a strong brewer’s workman might throw a big brewer’s sieve into a deep water tank, and taking it by the corners, drag it to, and drag it fro and drag it round about;Taking him on in debate, I’ll drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong brewer’s worker would toss a large brewer’s sieve into a deep lake, grab it by the corners, and drag it to and fro and round about!

evamevāhaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ vādena vādaṁ ākaḍḍhissāmi parikaḍḍhissāmi samparikaḍḍhissāmi. so with argument I will drag the monk Gotama to, drag him fro and drag him round about.

Seyyathāpi nāma balavā soṇḍikādhutto vālaṁ kaṇṇe gahetvā odhuneyya niddhuneyya nipphoṭeyya; Just as a strong brewer’s mixer might take a strainer by the corners and shake it down and shake it up and thump it about;Taking him on in debate, I’ll shake him down and about, and give him a beating, like a strong brewer’s mixer would grab a strainer by the corners and shake it down and about, and give it a beating!

evamevāhaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ vādena vādaṁ odhunissāmi niddhunissāmi nipphoṭessāmi. so with argument I will shake the monk Gotama down and shake him up and thump him.

Seyyathāpi nāma kuñjaro saṭṭhihāyano gambhīraṁ pokkharaṇiṁ ogāhetvā sāṇadhovikaṁ nāma kīḷitajātaṁ kīḷati; And just as a sixty year old elephant might go down into a pond and have great sport in the game of hemp-washing,I’ll play a game of hemp-washing with the ascetic Gotama, like a sixty-year-old elephant would plunge into a deep lotus pond and play a game of hemp-washing!

evamevāhaṁ samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ sāṇadhovikaṁ maññe kīḷitajātaṁ kīḷissāmi. so too I shall have great sport, I fancy, in the game of hemp-washing the monk Gotama.

Abhikkamantu bhonto licchavī, abhikkamantu bhonto licchavī, ajja me samaṇena gotamena saddhiṁ kathāsallāpo bhavissatī”ti. Come forth, Licchavis, sirs, come forth. There will be converse today between me and the monk Gotama.’Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.”

Tatrekacce licchavī evamāhaṁsu: Thereupon some Licchavis said:At that, some of the Licchavis said,

“kiṁ samaṇo gotamo saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa vādaṁ āropessati, atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto samaṇassa gotamassa vādaṁ āropessatī”ti? ‘Now will the monk Gotama refute Saccaka the Nigantha son’s assertions; or will Saccaka the Nigantha’s son refute the monk Gotama’s assertions?’“How can the ascetic Gotama refute Saccaka’s doctrine, when it is Saccaka who will refute Gotama’s doctrine?”

Ekacce licchavī evamāhaṁsu: And some Licchavis said:But some of the Licchavis said,

“kiṁ so bhavamāno saccako nigaṇṭhaputto yo bhagavato vādaṁ āropessati, atha kho bhagavā saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa vādaṁ āropessatī”ti? ‘How will Saccaka the Nigantha’s son refute the Blessed One’s assertions; on the contrary, the Blessed One will refute Saccaka the Nigantha son’s assertions.’“Who is Saccaka to refute the Buddha’s doctrine, when it is the Buddha who will refute Saccaka’s doctrine?”

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto pañcamattehi licchavisatehi parivuto yena mahāvanaṁ kūṭāgārasālā tenupasaṅkami. Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son went with the five hundred Licchavis to the Hall with the Peaked Roof in the Great Wood.Then Saccaka, escorted by the five hundred Licchavis, went to the hall with the peaked roof in the Great Wood.

Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā bhikkhū abbhokāse caṅkamanti. Now on that occasion a number of bhikkhus were walking up and down in the open.At that time several mendicants were walking mindfully in the open air.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto yena te bhikkhū tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā te bhikkhū etadavoca: Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son went up to them and asked:Then Saccaka went up to them and said,

“kahaṁ nu kho, bho, etarahi so bhavaṁ gotamo viharati? ‘Where is Master Gotama living now, sirs.“Good fellows, where is the worthy Gotama at present?

Dassanakāmā hi mayaṁ taṁ bhavantaṁ gotaman”ti. We want to see Master Gotama.’For we want to see him.”

“Esa, aggivessana, bhagavā mahāvanaṁ ajjhogāhetvā aññatarasmiṁ rukkhamūle divāvihāraṁ nisinno”ti. ‘The Blessed One has gone into the Great Wood, Aggivessana, and is sitting at the root of a tree for the day’s abiding.’“Aggivessana, the Buddha has plunged deep into the Great Wood and is sitting at the root of a tree for the day’s meditation.”

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto mahatiyā licchaviparisāya saddhiṁ mahāvanaṁ ajjhogāhetvā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son went together with a large following of Licchavis into the Great Wood to where the Blessed One was and exchanged greetings with him,Then Saccaka, together with a large group of Licchavis, went to the Buddha in the Great Wood, and exchanged greetings with him.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. and after the courteous and amiable talk was finished, he sat down at one side.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side.

Tepi kho licchavī appekacce bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu, sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Appekacce yena bhagavā tenañjaliṁ paṇāmetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce bhagavato santike nāmagottaṁ sāvetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce tuṇhībhūtā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. And some of the Licchavis paid homage to the Blessed One and sat down at one side; some exchanged greetings with him, and when this courteous and amiable talk was finished, they sat down at one side; some raised their hands palms together in salutation and sat down at one side; some pronounced their name and clan in the Blessed One’s presence and sat down at one side; some kept silence and sat down at one side.Before sitting down to one side, some of the Licchavīs bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward the Buddha, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent.

Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When Saccaka the Nigantha’s son had sat down, he said to the Blessed One:Then Saccaka said to the Buddha,

“puccheyyāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ kiñcideva desaṁ, sace me bhavaṁ gotamo okāsaṁ karoti pañhassa veyyākaraṇāyā”ti. ‘I would question Master Gotama on a certain point, if Master Gotama would grant me the favour of an answer to the question?’“I’d like to ask the worthy Gotama about a certain point, if you’d take the time to answer.”

“Puccha, aggivessana, yadākaṅkhasī”ti. ‘Ask what you like, Aggivessana.’“Ask what you wish, Aggivessana.”

“Kathaṁ pana bhavaṁ gotamo sāvake vineti, kathaṁbhāgā ca pana bhoto gotamassa sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattatī”ti? ‘How does Master Gotama discipline (lead away) his disciples; and in what way is Master Gotama’s instruction usually presented among the disciples?’“How does the worthy Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”

“Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, sāvake vinemi, evaṁbhāgā ca pana me sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattati: ‘This is how I discipline (lead away) disciples, Aggivessana; and this is the way my instruction is usually presented among disciples:“This is how I guide my disciples, and my instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:

‘rūpaṁ, bhikkhave, aniccaṁ, vedanā aniccā, saññā aniccā, saṅkhārā aniccā, viññāṇaṁ aniccaṁ. Form is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent;‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.

Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā, sabbe dhammā anattā’ti. formations are all impermanent, dhammas are all not self.All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’

Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, sāvake vinemi, evaṁbhāgā ca pana me sāvakesu anusāsanī bahulā pavattatī”ti. That is the way I discipline disciples; and that is the way in which my instruction is usually presented among disciples.’This is how I guide my disciples, and how instruction to my disciples generally proceeds.”

“Upamā maṁ, bho gotama, paṭibhātī”ti. ‘A simile occurs to me, Master Gotama.’“A simile strikes me, worthy Gotama.”

“Paṭibhātu taṁ, aggivessanā”ti bhagavā avoca. ‘Let it occur to you, Aggivessana,’ the Blessed One said.“Then speak as you feel inspired,” said the Buddha.

“Seyyathāpi, bho gotama, ye kecime bījagāmabhūtagāmā vuddhiṁ virūḷhiṁ vepullaṁ āpajjanti, sabbe te pathaviṁ nissāya pathaviyaṁ patiṭṭhāya. ‘Just as when seeds and plants, whatever their kind, reach growth, all do so in dependence on earth, based upon earth;“All the plants and seeds that achieve growth, increase, and maturity do so depending on the earth and grounded on the earth.

Evamete bījagāmabhūtagāmā vuddhiṁ virūḷhiṁ vepullaṁ āpajjanti. in this way these seeds and plants reach growth, increase and expansion.

Seyyathāpi vā pana, bho gotama, ye kecime balakaraṇīyā kammantā karīyanti, sabbe te pathaviṁ nissāya pathaviyaṁ patiṭṭhāya. And just as when the kinds of work to be done by the strong are done, all are done in dependence on earth, based upon earth—All the hard work that gets done depends on the earth and is grounded on the earth.

Evamete balakaraṇīyā kammantā karīyanti. in this way these works to be done by the strong are done.

Evameva kho, bho gotama, rūpattāyaṁ purisapuggalo rūpe patiṭṭhāya puññaṁ vā apuññaṁ vā pasavati, vedanattāyaṁ purisapuggalo vedanāyaṁ patiṭṭhāya puññaṁ vā apuññaṁ vā pasavati, saññattāyaṁ purisapuggalo saññāyaṁ patiṭṭhāya puññaṁ vā apuññaṁ vā pasavati, saṅkhārattāyaṁ purisapuggalo saṅkhāresu patiṭṭhāya puññaṁ vā apuññaṁ vā pasavati, viññāṇattāyaṁ purisapuggalo viññāṇe patiṭṭhāya puññaṁ vā apuññaṁ vā pasavatī”ti. so too, Master Gotama, a man has form as self, he produces merit or demerit based on form. He has feeling as self, he produces merit or demerit based on feeling. He has perception as self, he produces merit or demerit based on perception. He has formations as self, he produces merit or demerit based on formations. He has consciousness as self, he produces merit or demerit based on consciousness.’In the same way, an individual person’s self is form. Established on form they brim with merit and wickedness. An individual person’s self is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness. Established on consciousness they brim with merit and wickedness.”

“Nanu tvaṁ, aggivessana, evaṁ vadesi: ‘Aggivessana, are you not asserting thus:“Aggivessana, are you not saying this:

‘rūpaṁ me attā, vedanā me attā, saññā me attā, saṅkhārā me attā, viññāṇaṁ me attā’”ti? form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, formations are my self, consciousness is my self?’‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’?”

“Ahañhi, bho gotama, evaṁ vadāmi: ‘I assert thus, Master Gotama:“Indeed, worthy Gotama, that is what I am saying.

‘rūpaṁ me attā, vedanā me attā, saññā me attā, saṅkhārā me attā, viññāṇaṁ me attā’ti, ayañca mahatī janatā”ti. form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, formations are my self, consciousness is my self. And so does this great multitude.’And this big crowd agrees with me!”

“Kiñhi te, aggivessana, mahatī janatā karissati? ‘What has this great multitude to do with you, Aggivessana?“What has this big crowd to do with you?

Iṅgha tvaṁ, aggivessana, sakaññeva vādaṁ nibbeṭhehī”ti. Please confine yourself to your own assertion alone.’Please just unpack your own statement.”

“Ahañhi, bho gotama, evaṁ vadāmi: ‘Then, Master Gotama, I assert thus:“Then, worthy Gotama, what I am saying is this:

‘rūpaṁ me attā, vedanā me attā, saññā me attā, saṅkhārā me attā, viññāṇaṁ me attā’”ti. form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, formations are my self, consciousness is my self.’‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’.”

“Tena hi, aggivessana, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi, yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. ‘In that case, Aggivessana, I shall ask you a question in return. Answer it as you like.“Well then, Aggivessana, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

vatteyya rañño khattiyassa muddhāvasittassa sakasmiṁ vijite vaso—would a head-anointed warrior-noble king have the power in his own realmConsider an anointed aristocratic king such as Pasenadi of Kosala or Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of the princess of Videha.

ghātetāyaṁ vā ghātetuṁ, jāpetāyaṁ vā jāpetuṁ, pabbājetāyaṁ vā pabbājetuṁ, seyyathāpi rañño pasenadissa kosalassa, seyyathāpi vā pana rañño māgadhassa ajātasattussa vedehiputtassā”ti? to execute those who should be executed, to fine those who should be fined, to banish those who should be banished, for example, King Pasenadi of Kosala, or King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha?’Would they have the power in their own realm to execute those who have incurred execution, fine those who have incurred fines, or banish those who have incurred banishment?”

“Vatteyya, bho gotama, rañño khattiyassa muddhāvasittassa sakasmiṁ vijite vaso—‘Master Gotama, a head-anointed warrior-noble king would have the power in his own realm“An anointed king would have such power, worthy Gotama.

Imesampi hi, bho gotama, saṅghānaṁ gaṇānaṁ—For even these (oligarchic) communities and societiesEven federations such as the

Seyyathidaṁ—vajjīnaṁ mallānaṁ—such as the Vajjians and the Mallians,Vajjis and Mallas

vattati sakasmiṁ vijite vaso—have the power in their own realmhave such power in their own realm.

ghātetāyaṁ vā ghātetuṁ, jāpetāyaṁ vā jāpetuṁ, pabbājetāyaṁ vā pabbājetuṁ. to execute those who should be executed, to fine those who should be fined, to banish those who should be banished,

Kiṁ pana rañño khattiyassa muddhāvasittassa, seyyathāpi rañño pasenadissa kosalassa, seyyathāpi vā pana rañño māgadhassa ajātasattussa vedehiputtassa? so all the more so an anointed warrior king such as King Pasenadi of Kosala or King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha.So of course an anointed king such as Pasenadi or Ajātasattu

Vatteyya, bho gotama, vattituñca marahatī”ti. He would have it, Master Gotama, and he would be worthy to have it.’would wield such power, as is their right.”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana:“What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘rūpaṁ me attā’ti, vattati te tasmiṁ rūpe vaso—“Form is my self”, have you any such power over that form as:‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:

evaṁ me rūpaṁ hotu, evaṁ me rūpaṁ mā ahosī”ti? “Let my form be thus; let my form be not thus”?’‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”

Evaṁ vutte, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto tuṇhī ahosi. When this was said, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son was silent.When he said this, Saccaka kept silent.

Dutiyampi kho bhagavā saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ etadavoca: A second time the Blessed One said to him:The Buddha asked the question a second time,

“taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana, when you say thus:

‘rūpaṁ me attā’ti, vattati te tasmiṁ rūpe vaso—“Form is my self”, have you any such power over that form as:

evaṁ me rūpaṁ hotu, evaṁ me rūpaṁ mā ahosī”ti? “Let my form be thus; let my form be not thus”?’

Dutiyampi kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto tuṇhī ahosi. A second time Saccaka the Nigantha’s son was silent.but Saccaka still kept silent.

Atha kho bhagavā saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ etadavoca: Then the Blessed One said to him:So the Buddha said to Saccaka,

“byākarohi dāni, aggivessana, na dāni te tuṇhībhāvassa kālo. ‘Aggivessana, answer now. Now is not the time to be silent.“Answer now, Aggivessana. Now is not the time for silence.

Yo koci, aggivessana tathāgatena yāvatatiyaṁ sahadhammikaṁ pañhaṁ puṭṭho na byākaroti, etthevassa sattadhā muddhā phalatī”ti. If anyone did not answer when asked a question according to Dhamma up to the third time by the Tathāgata his head would split in seven pieces there and then.’If someone fails to answer a legitimate question when asked three times by the Buddha, their head explodes into seven pieces there and then.”

Tena kho pana samayena vajirapāṇi yakkho āyasaṁ vajiraṁ ādāya ādittaṁ sampajjalitaṁ sajotibhūtaṁ saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa uparivehāsaṁ ṭhito hoti: Now on that occasion a thunderbolt-wielding spirit with an iron bolt in his head, burning, blazing, glowing, appeared in the air above Saccaka the Nigantha’s son (thinking):Now at that time the spirit Vajirapāṇī, taking up a burning iron thunderbolt, blazing and glowing, stood in the air above Saccaka, thinking,

“sacāyaṁ saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavatā yāvatatiyaṁ sahadhammikaṁ pañhaṁ puṭṭho na byākarissati etthevassa sattadhā muddhaṁ phālessāmī”ti. ‘If this Saccaka the Nigantha’s son does not answer when asked a question according to Dhamma up to the third time, I shall split his head into seven pieces here and now.’“If this Saccaka doesn’t answer when asked a third time, I’ll blow his head into seven pieces there and then!”

Taṁ kho pana vajirapāṇiṁ yakkhaṁ bhagavā ceva passati saccako ca nigaṇṭhaputto. The Blessed One saw the thunderbolt-wielding spirit and so did Saccaka the Nigantha’s son.And both the Buddha and Saccaka could see Vajirapāṇī.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhīto saṁviggo lomahaṭṭhajāto bhagavantaṁyeva tāṇaṁ gavesī bhagavantaṁyeva leṇaṁ gavesī bhagavantaṁyeva saraṇaṁ gavesī bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son was frightened, terrified and his hair stood on end, and seeking to make the Blessed One his shelter, his asylum and refuge, he said:Saccaka was terrified, shocked, and awestruck. Looking to the Buddha for shelter, asylum, and refuge, he said,

“pucchatu maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo, byākarissāmī”ti. ‘Ask me, Master Gotama; I will answer.’“Ask me, worthy Gotama. I will answer.”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,“What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘rūpaṁ me attā’ti, vattati te tasmiṁ rūpe vaso—“Form is my self”, have you any such power over that form as:‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:

evaṁ me rūpaṁ hotu, evaṁ me rūpaṁ mā ahosī”ti? “Let my form be thus; let my form be not thus”?’‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Manasi karohi, aggivessana; ‘Pay attention, Aggivessana,“Think about it, Aggivessana!

manasi karitvā kho, aggivessana, byākarohi. pay attention how you reply.You should think before answering.

Na kho te sandhiyati purimena vā pacchimaṁ pacchimena vā purimaṁ. What you said before does not agree with what you said after, or what you said after with what you said before.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘vedanā me attā’ti, vattati te tissaṁ vedanāyaṁ vaso—“Feeling is my self”, have you any such power over that feeling as:‘Feeling is my self,’ do you have power over that feeling to say:

evaṁ me vedanā hotu, evaṁ me vedanā mā ahosī”ti? “Let my feeling be thus; let my feeling be not thus”?’‘May my feeling be like this! May it not be like that’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Manasi karohi, aggivessana; ‘Pay attention, Aggivessana,“Think about it, Aggivessana!

manasi karitvā kho, aggivessana, byākarohi. pay attention how you reply.You should think before answering.

Na kho te sandhiyati purimena vā pacchimaṁ, pacchimena vā purimaṁ. What you said before does not agree with what you said after, or what you said after with what you said before.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘saññā me attā’ti, vattati te tissaṁ saññāyaṁ vaso—“Perception is my self”, have you any such power over that perception as:‘Perception is my self,’ do you have power over that perception to say:

evaṁ me saññā hotu, evaṁ me saññā mā ahosī”ti? “Let my perception be thus; let my perception be not thus”?’‘May my perception be like this! May it not be like that’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Manasi karohi, aggivessana; ‘Pay attention, Aggivessana,“Think about it, Aggivessana!

manasi karitvā kho, aggivessana, byākarohi. pay attention how you reply.You should think before answering.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘saṅkhārā me attā’ti, vattati te tesu saṅkhāresu vaso—“Formations are my self”, have you any such power over those formations as:‘Choices are my self,’ do you have power over those choices to say:

evaṁ me saṅkhārā hontu, evaṁ me saṅkhārā mā ahesun”ti? “Let my formations be thus; let my formations be not thus”?’‘May my choices be like this! May they not be like that’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Manasi karohi, aggivessana; ‘Pay attention, Aggivessana,“Think about it, Aggivessana!

manasi karitvā kho, aggivessana, byākarohi. pay attention how you reply.You should think before answering.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

yaṁ tvaṁ evaṁ vadesi: when you say thus:When you say,

‘viññāṇaṁ me attā’ti, vattati te tasmiṁ viññāṇe vaso—“Consciousness is my self”, have you any such power over that consciousness as:‘Consciousness is my self,’ do you have power over that consciousness to say:

evaṁ me viññāṇaṁ hotu, evaṁ me viññāṇaṁ mā ahosī”ti? “Let my consciousness be thus; let my consciousness be not thus”?’‘May my consciousness be like this! May it not be like that’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Manasi karohi, aggivessana; ‘Pay attention, Aggivessana,“Think about it, Aggivessana!

manasi karitvā kho, aggivessana, byākarohi. pay attention how you reply.You should think before answering.

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,What do you think, Aggivessana?

rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti? is form permanent or impermanent?’Is form permanent or impermanent?”

“Aniccaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘Impermanent, Master Gotama.’“Impermanent.”

“Yaṁ panāniccaṁ dukkhaṁ vā taṁ sukhaṁ vā”ti? ‘Now is what is impermanent unpleasant or pleasant?’“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”

“Dukkhaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘Unpleasant, Master Gotama.’“Suffering.”

“Yaṁ panāniccaṁ dukkhaṁ vipariṇāmadhammaṁ, kallaṁ nu taṁ samanupassituṁ: ‘Now is what is impermanent, unpleasant and subject to change fit to be regarded as:“But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:

‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’”ti? “This is mine, this is I, this is my self”?’‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana, is feeling permanent or impermanent? …“What do you think, Aggivessana?

vedanā …pe… is perception permanent or impermanent? …Is feeling …

saññā …pe… are formations permanent or impermanent? …perception …

saṅkhārā …pe… How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,choices …

taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, viññāṇaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti? is consciousness permanent or impermanent?’consciousness permanent or impermanent?”

“Aniccaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘Impermanent, Master Gotama.’“Impermanent.”

“Yaṁ panāniccaṁ dukkhaṁ vā taṁ sukhaṁ vā”ti? ‘Now is what is impermanent unpleasant or pleasant?’“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”

“Dukkhaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘Unpleasant, Master Gotama.’“Suffering.”

‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’”ti? “This is mine, this is I, this is my self”?’‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”

“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. ‘No, Master Gotama.’“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,“What do you think, Aggivessana?

yo nu kho dukkhaṁ allīno dukkhaṁ upagato dukkhaṁ ajjhosito, dukkhaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassati, api nu kho so sāmaṁ vā dukkhaṁ parijāneyya, dukkhaṁ vā parikkhepetvā vihareyyā”ti? when a man adheres to suffering, resorts to suffering, accepts suffering, always views suffering as: “This is mine, this is I, this is my self”, would he himself ever fully understand suffering or abide with suffering quite exhausted?’Consider someone who resorts, draws near, and clings to suffering, regarding it thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’ Would they be able to completely understand suffering themselves, or live having wiped out suffering?”

“Kiñhi siyā, bho gotama? ‘Why should he, Master Gotama?“How could they?

No hidaṁ, bho gotamā”ti. No, Master Gotama.’No, worthy Gotama.”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, ‘How do you conceive this, Aggivessana,“What do you think, Aggivessana?

nanu tvaṁ evaṁ sante dukkhaṁ allīno dukkhaṁ upagato dukkhaṁ ajjhosito, dukkhaṁ: that being so, do you not adhere to suffering, do you not resort to suffering, do you not accept suffering, do you not always view suffering as:This being so, aren’t you someone who resorts, draws near, and clings to suffering, regarding it thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”

‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassasī”ti? “This is mine, this is I, this is my self”?’

“Kiñhi no siyā, bho gotama? ‘Why not, Master Gotama?“How could I not?

Evametaṁ, bho gotamā”ti. Yes, Master Gotama.’Yes, worthy Gotama.”

“Seyyathāpi, aggivessana, puriso sāratthiko sāragavesī sārapariyesanaṁ caramāno tiṇhaṁ kuṭhāriṁ ādāya vanaṁ paviseyya. ‘It is as though a man needing heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, took a sharp axe and went to the wood;“Suppose, Aggivessana, there was a person in need of heartwood. Wandering in search of heartwood, they’d take a sharp axe and enter a forest.

So tattha passeyya mahantaṁ kadalikkhandhaṁ ujuṁ navaṁ akukkukajātaṁ. and there he saw a large plantain trunk, straight, young, with no fruit-bud core.There they’d see a big banana trunk, straight and young and grown unskewed.

Tamenaṁ mūle chindeyya, mūle chetvā agge chindeyya, agge chetvā pattavaṭṭiṁ vinibbhujeyya. Then he cut off the root, he cut off the crown, and having cut off the crown he unrolled the leaf-sheaths;They’d cut it down at the base, cut off the top, and unroll the coiled sheaths.

So tattha pattavaṭṭiṁ vinibbhujanto pheggumpi nādhigaccheyya, kuto sāraṁ? but as he went on unrolling the leaf-sheaths he would never come even to any sapwood, let alone heartwood.But they wouldn’t even find sapwood, much less heartwood.

Evameva kho tvaṁ, aggivessana, mayā sakasmiṁ vāde samanuyuñjiyamāno samanugāhiyamāno samanubhāsiyamāno ritto tuccho aparaddho. So too, Aggivessana, when you are pressed and questioned and cross-questioned by me about your own assertion, you are empty, vacant and in the wrong.In the same way, when pursued, pressed, and grilled by me on your own doctrine, you turn out to be vacuous, hollow, and mistaken.

Bhāsitā kho pana te esā, aggivessana, vesāliyaṁ parisati vācā: But these words of yours were spoken before this assembly:But it was you who stated before the assembly of Vesālī:

‘nāhaṁ taṁ passāmi samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā, saṅghiṁ gaṇiṁ gaṇācariyaṁ, api arahantaṁ sammāsambuddhaṁ paṭijānamānaṁ, yo mayā vādena vādaṁ samāraddho na saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampavedheyya, yassa na kacchehi sedā mucceyyuṁ. “I see no monk or divine, the head of a sangha, head of a sect, teacher of a sect, even if he claims to be Arahant and Fully Enlightened, who would not shake and shiver and tremble and sweat under the armpits on being engaged in argument with me.‘I don’t see any ascetic or brahmin who would not shake and rock and tremble, sweating from the armpits, were I to take them on in debate—not a leader of an order or a community, or the tutor of a community, and not even one who claims to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha.

Thūṇaṁ cepāhaṁ acetanaṁ vādena vādaṁ samārabheyyaṁ sāpi mayā vādena vādaṁ samāraddhā saṅkampeyya sampakampeyya sampavedheyya. Even if I engaged a senseless post in argument it would shake and shiver and tremble on being engaged in argument with me,Even an insentient post would shake and rock and tremble were I to take it on in debate.

Ko pana vādo manussabhūtassā’ti? so what shall I say of a human being?”How much more then a human being!’

Tuyhaṁ kho pana, aggivessana, appekaccāni sedaphusitāni nalāṭā muttāni, uttarāsaṅgaṁ vinibhinditvā bhūmiyaṁ patiṭṭhitāni. Now there are drops of sweat on your forehead and they have soaked through your upper robe and fallen to the ground.But sweat is pouring from your forehead; it’s soaked through your robe and drips on the ground.

Mayhaṁ kho pana, aggivessana, natthi etarahi kāyasmiṁ sedo”ti. But there is no sweat on my body now.’While I now have no sweat on my body.”

Iti bhagavā tasmiṁ parisati suvaṇṇavaṇṇaṁ kāyaṁ vivari. And the Blessed One uncovered his golden-coloured body before the assembly.So the Buddha revealed his golden body to the assembly.

Evaṁ vutte, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto tuṇhībhūto maṅkubhūto pattakkhandho adhomukho pajjhāyanto appaṭibhāno nisīdi. When this was said, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son sat silent, dismayed, with shoulders drooping and head down, glum and with nothing to say.When this was said, Saccaka sat silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say.

Atha kho dummukho licchaviputto saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ tuṇhībhūtaṁ maṅkubhūtaṁ pattakkhandhaṁ adhomukhaṁ pajjhāyantaṁ appaṭibhānaṁ viditvā bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: Then Dummukha the son of the Licchavis, seeing Saccaka the Nigantha’s son thus, said to the Blessed One:Knowing this, the Licchavi Dummukha said to the Buddha,

“upamā maṁ, bhagavā, paṭibhātī”ti. ‘A simile occurs to me, Master Gotama.’“A simile strikes me, Blessed One.”

“Paṭibhātu taṁ, dummukhā”ti bhagavā avoca. ‘Let it occur to you, Dummukkha.’“Then speak as you feel inspired,” said the Buddha.

“Seyyathāpi, bhante, gāmassa vā nigamassa vā avidūre pokkharaṇī. ‘Suppose, venerable sir, not far from a village or town there were a pond“Sir, suppose there was a lotus pond not far from a town or village,

Tatrāssa kakkaṭako. with a crab in it.and a crab lived there.

Atha kho, bhante, sambahulā kumārakā vā kumārikā vā tamhā gāmā vā nigamā vā nikkhamitvā yena sā pokkharaṇī tenupasaṅkameyyuṁ; upasaṅkamitvā taṁ pokkharaṇiṁ ogāhetvā taṁ kakkaṭakaṁ udakā uddharitvā thale patiṭṭhāpeyyuṁ. And then a party of boys and girls went out from the town or village to the pond, and they went into the water and pulled the crab out of the water and put it on dry land.Then several boys or girls would leave the town or village and go to the pond, where they’d pull out the crab and put it on solid ground.

Yaññadeva hi so, bhante, kakkaṭako aḷaṁ abhininnāmeyya taṁ tadeva te kumārakā vā kumārikā vā kaṭṭhena vā kathalena vā sañchindeyyuṁ sambhañjeyyuṁ sampalibhañjeyyuṁ. And whenever the crab extended a leg, they cut it off, broke it, smashed it with sticks and stones,Whenever that crab extended a claw, those boys or girls would snap, crack, and break it off with a stick or a stone.

Evañhi so, bhante, kakkaṭako sabbehi aḷehi sañchinnehi sambhaggehi sampalibhaggehi abhabbo taṁ pokkharaṇiṁ puna otarituṁ, seyyathāpi pubbe. so that the crab with all its legs cut off, broken and smashed would be unable to get back to the pond as before—And when that crab’s claws had all been snapped, cracked, and broken off it wouldn’t be able to return down into that lotus pond.

Evameva kho, bhante, yāni saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa visūkāyitāni visevitāni vipphanditāni tānipi sabbāni bhagavatā sañchinnāni sambhaggāni sampalibhaggāni; so too, all Saccaka the Nigantha’s son’s distortions, paradoxes and travesties have been cut off, broken and smashed by the Blessed One,In the same way, sir, the Buddha has snapped, cracked, and broken off all Saccaka’s twists, ducks, and dodges.

abhabbo ca dāni, bhante, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto puna bhagavantaṁ upasaṅkamituṁ yadidaṁ vādādhippāyo”ti. and now he cannot get near the Blessed One as was the purpose of his words.’Now he can’t get near the Buddha again looking for a debate.”

Evaṁ vutte, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto dummukhaṁ licchaviputtaṁ etadavoca: When this was said, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son told him:But Saccaka said to him,

“āgamehi tvaṁ, dummukha, āgamehi tvaṁ, dummukha, (…) na mayaṁ tayā saddhiṁ mantema, idha mayaṁ bhotā gotamena saddhiṁ mantema. ‘Wait, Dummukkha, wait. We are not treating with you, here we are treating with Master Gotama.“Hold on, Dummukha, hold on! I wasn’t talking with you, I was talking with the worthy Gotama.

Tiṭṭhatesā, bho gotama, amhākañceva aññesañca puthusamaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ vācā. Let that talk of ours be, Master Gotama, like that of many a monk and divineWorthy Gotama, leave aside that statement I made—as did various other ascetics and brahmins—

Vilāpaṁ vilapitaṁ maññe. it was (just) so many words, I fancy.it was, like, just a bit of nonsense.

Kittāvatā ca nu kho bhoto gotamassa sāvako sāsanakaro hoti ovādapatikaro tiṇṇavicikiccho vigatakathaṅkatho vesārajjappatto aparappaccayo satthusāsane viharatī”ti? But how does a disciple of the monk Gotama carry out the message, respond to advice, cross beyond uncertainty, lose his doubts, gain intrepidity, and become independent of others in the Teacher’s message?’How do you define a disciple of the worthy Gotama who follows instructions and responds to advice; who has gone beyond doubt, got rid of indecision, gained assurance, and is independent of others in the Teacher’s instructions?”

“Idha, aggivessana, mama sāvako yaṁ kiñci rūpaṁ atītānāgatapaccuppannaṁ ajjhattaṁ vā bahiddhā vā oḷārikaṁ vā sukhumaṁ vā hīnaṁ vā paṇītaṁ vā yaṁ dūre santike vā, sabbaṁ rūpaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya passati; ‘Here, Aggivessana, any kind of form—whatever, whether past, future or present, in oneself or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees with right understanding all form as it actually is thus: “This is not mine, this not I, this is not my self.”“It’s when one of my disciples truly sees any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: all form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

yā kāci vedanā …pe… Any kind of feeling whatever …They truly see any kind of feeling …

yā kāci saññā …pe… Any kind of perception whatever …perception …

ye keci saṅkhārā …pe… Any kind of formation whatever …choices …

yaṁ kiñci viññāṇaṁ atītānāgatapaccuppannaṁ ajjhattaṁ vā bahiddhā vā oḷārikaṁ vā sukhumaṁ vā hīnaṁ vā paṇītaṁ vā, yaṁ dūre santike vā, sabbaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya passati. Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or present, in oneself or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near—a disciple of mine sees with right understanding all consciousness as it actually is thus: “This is not mine, this is not I, this not my self.”consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: all consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

Ettāvatā kho, aggivessana, mama sāvako sāsanakaro hoti ovādapatikaro tiṇṇavicikiccho vigatakathaṅkatho vesārajjappatto aparappaccayo satthusāsane viharatī”ti. This is how a disciple of mine carries out the message, responds to advice, crosses beyond uncertainty, loses his doubts, gains intrepidity and becomes independent of others in the Teacher’s message.’That’s how to define one of my disciples who follows instructions and responds to advice; who has gone beyond doubt, got rid of indecision, gained assurance, and is independent of others in the Teacher’s instructions.”

“Kittāvatā pana, bho gotama, bhikkhu arahaṁ hoti khīṇāsavo vusitavā katakaraṇīyo ohitabhāro anuppattasadattho parikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojano sammadaññāvimutto”ti? ‘Master Gotama, how does a bhikkhu become an Arahant, with the taints exhausted who has lived the life, done what was to be done, laid down the burden, reached the highest goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and who through right final knowledge is liberated?’“But how do you define a mendicant who is a perfected one, with defilements ended, who has completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their heart’s goal, utterly ended the fetter of continued existence, and is rightly freed through enlightenment?”

“Idha, aggivessana, bhikkhu yaṁ kiñci rūpaṁ atītānāgatapaccuppannaṁ ajjhattaṁ vā bahiddhā vā oḷārikaṁ vā sukhumaṁ vā hīnaṁ vā paṇītaṁ vā yaṁ dūre santike vā sabbaṁ rūpaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya disvā anupādā vimutto hoti; ‘Here, Aggivessana, any kind of form whatever, whether past, future or present, in oneself or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, a bhikkhu sees with right understanding all form as it actually is thus: “This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self”, and through not clinging he is liberated.“It’s when a mendicant truly sees any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: all form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ And having seen this with right understanding they’re freed by not grasping.

yā kāci vedanā …pe… Any kind of feeling whatever …They truly see any kind of feeling …

yā kāci saññā …pe… Any kind of perception whatever …perception …

ye keci saṅkhārā …pe… Any kind of formation whatever …choices …

yaṁ kiñci viññāṇaṁ atītānāgatapaccuppannaṁ ajjhattaṁ vā bahiddhā vā oḷārikaṁ vā sukhumaṁ vā hīnaṁ vā paṇītaṁ vā yaṁ dūre santike vā sabbaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya disvā anupādā vimutto hoti. Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or present, in oneself or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, a bhikkhu sees with right understanding all consciousness as it actually is thus: “This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self”, and through not clinging he is liberated.consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: all consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ And having seen this with right understanding they’re freed by not grasping.

Ettāvatā kho, aggivessana, bhikkhu arahaṁ hoti khīṇāsavo vusitavā katakaraṇīyo ohitabhāro anuppattasadattho parikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojano sammadaññāvimutto. That is how a bhikkhu becomes an Arahant, with taints exhausted, who has lived the life, done what was to be done, laid down the burden, reached the highest goal, destroyed the fetters of being, and through right final knowledge is liberated.That’s how to define a mendicant who is a perfected one, with defilements ended, who has completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their heart’s goal, utterly ended the fetter of continued existence, and is rightly freed through enlightenment.

Evaṁ vimuttacitto kho, aggivessana, bhikkhu tīhi anuttariyehi samannāgato hoti—‘When a bhikkhu’s mind is thus liberated, he possesses three unsurpassabilities:A mendicant whose mind is freed like this has three unsurpassable qualities:

dassanānuttariyena, paṭipadānuttariyena, vimuttānuttariyena. unsurpassability in vision, unsurpassability in practice of the way, and unsurpassability in deliverance.unsurpassable seeing, practice, and freedom.

Evaṁ vimuttacitto kho, aggivessana, bhikkhu tathāgataññeva sakkaroti garuṁ karoti māneti pūjeti—When a bhikkhu is thus liberated, he honours, respects, reveres, and venerates only the Tathāgata:They honor, respect, esteem, and venerate only the Realized One:

buddho so bhagavā bodhāya dhammaṁ deseti, danto so bhagavā damathāya dhammaṁ deseti, santo so bhagavā samathāya dhammaṁ deseti, tiṇṇo so bhagavā taraṇāya dhammaṁ deseti, parinibbuto so bhagavā parinibbānāya dhammaṁ desetī”ti. The Blessed One is enlightened and teaches the Dhamma by enlightenment. The Blessed One is controlled and he teaches the Dhamma by control. The Blessed One is serene and he teaches the Dhamma by serenity. The Blessed One has crossed over and he teaches the Dhamma by having crossed over. The Blessed One has attained Nibbāna and he teaches the Dhamma by having attained Nibbāna.’‘The Blessed One is awakened, tamed, serene, crossed over, and quenched. And he teaches Dhamma for awakening, self-control, serenity, crossing over, and extinguishment.’”

Evaṁ vutte, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When this was said, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son replied:When he had spoken, Saccaka said to him,

“mayameva, bho gotama, dhaṁsī, mayaṁ pagabbā, ye mayaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ vādena vādaṁ āsādetabbaṁ amaññimha. ‘Master Gotama, we were bold and forward in conceiving Master Gotama to be attackable by argument.“Worthy Gotama, it was rude and impudent of me to imagine I could attack you in debate.

Siyā hi, bho gotama, hatthiṁ pabhinnaṁ āsajja purisassa sotthibhāvo, na tveva bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ āsajja siyā purisassa sotthibhāvo. A man might be such that he could with impunity attack a mad elephant, yet he could not attack Master Gotama with impunity.For a person might find safety after attacking a rutting elephant, but not after attacking the worthy Gotama.

Siyā hi, bho gotama, pajjalitaṁ aggikkhandhaṁ āsajja purisassa sotthibhāvo, na tveva bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ āsajja siyā purisassa sotthibhāvo. A man might be such that he could with impunity attack a blazing mass of fire, yet he could not attack Master Gotama with impunity.A person might find safety after attacking a blazing mass of fire, but not after attacking the worthy Gotama.

Siyā hi, bho gotama, āsīvisaṁ ghoravisaṁ āsajja purisassa sotthibhāvo, na tveva bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ āsajja siyā purisassa sotthibhāvo. A man might be such that he could with impunity attack a terrible poisonous serpent, yet he could not attack Master Gotama with impunity.They might find safety after attacking a poisonous viper, but not after attacking the worthy Gotama.

Mayameva, bho gotama, dhaṁsī, mayaṁ pagabbā, ye mayaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ vādena vādaṁ āsādetabbaṁ amaññimha. We were bold and forward in conceiving Master Gotama to be attackable by argument.It was rude and impudent of me to imagine I could attack you in debate.

Adhivāsetu me bhavaṁ gotamo svātanāya bhattaṁ saddhiṁ bhikkhusaṅghenā”ti. Let the Blessed One, together with the Sangha of Bhikkhus, accept tomorrow’s meal from me.’Would the worthy Gotama together with the mendicant Saṅgha please accept tomorrow’s meal from me?”

Adhivāsesi bhagavā tuṇhībhāvena. The Blessed One accepted in silence.The Buddha consented with silence.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavato adhivāsanaṁ viditvā te licchavī āmantesi: Then knowing that the Blessed One had accepted, he addressed the Licchavis:Then, knowing that the Buddha had consented, Saccaka addressed those Licchavis,

“suṇantu me bhonto licchavī, samaṇo me gotamo nimantito svātanāya saddhiṁ bhikkhusaṅghena. ‘Hear me, Licchavis, the monk Gotama together with the Sangha of Bhikkhus has been invited by me for tomorrow’s meal.“Listen, gentlemen. I have invited the ascetic Gotama together with the Saṅgha of mendicants for tomorrow’s meal.

Tena me abhihareyyātha yamassa patirūpaṁ maññeyyāthā”ti. You may bring to me whatever you think is proper for him.’You may all bring me what you think is suitable.”

Atha kho te licchavī tassā rattiyā accayena saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa pañcamattāni thālipākasatāni bhattābhihāraṁ abhihariṁsu. Then when the night was ended the Licchavis brought five hundred ceremonial dishes of milk rice as gifts of food.Then, when the night had passed, those Licchavis presented Saccaka with an offering of five hundred servings of food.

Atha kho nigaṇṭhaputto sake ārāme paṇītaṁ khādanīyaṁ bhojanīyaṁ paṭiyādāpetvā bhagavato kālaṁ ārocāpesi: Then Saccaka the Nigantha’s son had good food of various kinds prepared in his own house, and he had the time announced to the Blessed One:And Saccaka had delicious fresh and cooked foods prepared in his own park. Then he had the Buddha informed of the time, saying,

“kālo, bho gotama, niṭṭhitaṁ bhattan”ti. ‘It is time, Master Gotama, the meal is ready.’“It’s time, worthy Gotama, the meal is ready.”

Atha kho bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya yena saccakassa nigaṇṭhaputtassa ārāmo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā paññatte āsane nisīdi saddhiṁ bhikkhusaṅghena. Then, it being morning, the Blessed One dressed, and taking his bowl and (outer) robe, he went with the Sangha of Bhikkhus to Saccaka the Nigantha’s son’s house, and sat down on the seat made ready.Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, went to Saccaka’s park, where he sat down on the seat spread out together with the Saṅgha of mendicants.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto buddhappamukhaṁ bhikkhusaṅghaṁ paṇītena khādanīyena bhojanīyena sahatthā santappesi sampavāresi. Then with his own hands, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son served and satisfied the Sangha of Bhikkhus headed by the Enlightened One with the various kinds of good food.Then Saccaka served and satisfied the mendicant Saṅgha headed by the Buddha with his own hands with delicious fresh and cooked foods.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ bhuttāviṁ onītapattapāṇiṁ aññataraṁ nīcaṁ āsanaṁ gahetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Then when the Blessed One had eaten and no longer had the bowl in his hand, Saccaka the Nigantha’s son took a low seat and sat down at one side.When the Buddha had eaten and washed his hand and bowl, Saccaka took a low seat and sat to one side.

Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When he had done so, he said to the Blessed One:Then Saccaka said to the Buddha,

“yamidaṁ, bho gotama, dāne puññañca puññamahī ca taṁ dāyakānaṁ sukhāya hotū”ti. ‘Master Gotama, whatever the merit and (expected future) greatness due to merit in (this) act-of-giving, may that be for the happiness of the givers.’“Worthy Gotama, may the merit and the growth of merit in this gift be for the happiness of the donors.”

“Yaṁ kho, aggivessana, tādisaṁ dakkhiṇeyyaṁ āgamma avītarāgaṁ avītadosaṁ avītamohaṁ, taṁ dāyakānaṁ bhavissati. ‘Aggivessana, such (merit and expected greatness due to merit) as comes of (giving to) one fit for offerings in the way that you are, (you being) not without lust, not without hate, and not without delusion, will be for the givers (who have given to you);“Aggivessana, whatever comes from giving to a recipient of a religious donation such as yourself—who is not free of greed, hate, and delusion—will accrue to the donors.

Yaṁ kho, aggivessana, mādisaṁ dakkhiṇeyyaṁ āgamma vītarāgaṁ vītadosaṁ vītamohaṁ, taṁ tuyhaṁ bhavissatī”ti. but such as comes of (giving to) one fit for offerings in the way that I am, (I being) without lust, without hate and without delusion, will be for you (who have given to me).Whatever comes from giving to a recipient of a religious donation such as myself—who is free of greed, hate, and delusion—will accrue to you.”

Cūḷasaccakasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ pañcamaṁ.

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